Electric Vehicles – a Running List of Talking Points For and even Against

Best summary documents:

1. https://blog.ucsusa.org/cecilia-moura/5-ways-rural-drivers-benefit-from-electric-vehicles.
2. https://www.energysage.com/electric-vehicles/101/pros-and-cons-electric-cars/.
3. https://energy.drax.com/insights/electric-vehicle-myths/
4. https://www.epa.gov/greenvehicles/electric-vehicle-myths.

 

Electric Vehicles (EVs)’ Benefits

• Cheaper to drive and maintain, often perform better, run quietly.” https://www.ecowatch.com/electric-vehicles-cleanest-option-2650487222.html.
• Emissions: An average EV produces during its lifetime less than half the greenhouse gas emissions of a gasoline-powered vehicle, according to a UCS study. https://blog.ucsusa.org/cecilia-moura/5-ways-rural-drivers-benefit-from-electric-vehicles. Half in coal country. https://thedriven.io/2019/12/09/are-evs-cleaner-than-ice-coal-grid.
• EVs, can be part of a smart resiliency plan” https://www.ecowatch.com/electric-vehicles-texas-blackout-2650741199.html. batteries can hold approximately 60 kilowatt hours (kWh) (2 days).
  • electric buses that can store up to 660 kWh of energy. Electric garbage trucks and even big-rigs, with bigger batteries, are becoming a reality too.”
  • BUT, must be installed with vehicle-to-grid tech, which is under development (F 150 advertised with this.)
  • Utility must also get permits for large-scale development.
  • And Shelters, hospitals, emergency response centers must have wiring attached, box upgraded.
  • See Vehicle 2 Go benefits below under Other Electrical Requirements.
• “Air pollution is much worse than we thought; Ditching fossil fuels would pay for itself through clean air alone” …. science on air pollution has advanced
  • latest air quality research, presented at a recent hearing of the House Committee on Oversight and Reformby Drew Shindell, Nicholas professor of earth science at Duke University… air pollution are roughly twice as bad as previously estimated.”
  • Shindell testified: “Over the next 50 years, keeping to the 2°C pathway would prevent roughly 4.5 million premature deaths, about 3.5 million hospitalizations and emergency room visits, and approximately 300 million lost workdays in the US….” UCS: over $700 billion per year in benefits to the US from improved health and labor alone, far more than the cost of the energy transition.”
  • Decarbonization could reduce 250,000 premature deaths/year by 40%.
  • [new] studies, you find that air pollution seems to affect almost every organ in the human body.” (decrease impulse control and academic performance as well.)
  • https://www.vox.com/energy-and-environment/2020/8/12/21361498/climate-change-air-pollution-us-india-china-deaths
  • Think of school buses.
• Good for rural drivers https://blog.ucsusa.org/cecilia-moura/5-ways-rural-drivers-benefit-from-electric-vehicles
  • Double the savings in fuel and maintenance because of driving distances. More so when gasoline prices are high.
  • in a 2019 study by UCSwe estimated that annual fuel savings in rural areas (with up to 500 residents per square mile) range from several hundred dollars to over a thousand dollars”
  • roughly three times as efficient as a gas-powered vehicle, An EV converts more than three-quartersof the electrical energy from the power grid to turn the wheels, whereas a gas-powered vehicle only converts about 12 to 30 percent of energy stored in the gasoline into moving the car. “
  • An EV drivetrain has about 20 moving partswhile conventional internal combustion drivetrains may have up to 2,000 moving parts, so there is more to break. For example, EVs have no motor oil or spark plugs, and brake wear is much reduced because of regenerative breaking.”  [So cool!]
  • savings in rural households range from $1,900 to $2,800 per year, while for urban households the range is lower, from $1,500 to $2,000.”
  • analysis on the four states show that, during the lifetime of an EV, these combined savings range from $27,000 to $44,000 in rural areas compared to $22,000 to $31,000 in urban areas.”
  • Rural drivers much more likely to drive bigger, older vehicles so the fuel savings is even more.
  • Can plug in and charge from home usually.
  • current range of EVs is 200 to 300 miles; most rural drivers drive 11-14+ miles per trip. For this range, or even 35 miles per trip, only need an overnight charge on a regular plug.
• Diverse styles and lower prices increasing. up to 100 EV models are plannedfor 2024, including  many SUVs and pick-up trucks.” https://blog.ucsusa.org/cecilia-moura/5-ways-rural-drivers-benefit-from-electric-vehicles
• Tax incentives. Current one provides up to a $7,500 credit for the purchase of a new EV.” https://blog.ucsusa.org/cecilia-moura/5-ways-rural-drivers-benefit-from-electric-vehicles.  New one will provide the same credit, under more expanded (such as including used cars), and limited (must be made in the USA) conditions
• Quieter! Less city noise pollution.
• Faster acceleration – avoid accidents. Also fun to drive. In a recent poll by ZapZap of 2,000 electric car owners, 91% said they would not want to go back. https://www.theguardian.com/environment/2021/jan/22/electric-vehicles-close-to-tipping-point-of-mass-adoption.
• Soon will be able to have larger SUVs . https://www.theguardian.com/environment/2021/jan/22/electric-vehicles-close-to-tipping-point-of-mass-adoption.
• Some can be used as a home generator in emergencies, such as the upcoming Ford F-150, which can run the basics (AC, fridge) of a house for 2-3 days.

 

EVs’ Perceived Costs/Costs

• Higher emissions in production. “The ‘pre-manufacture’ and ‘product manufacture’ stages are where electric vehicles have around 44% greater impact on the environment than GPVs.[4] [5]… primarily due to the materials needed to make the Lead Acid batteries currently used in EVs.” https://climatesolutioncenter.com/environmental-impact-of-electric-vehicles/.
  • COUNTER: the vast majority of emissions [saved] come from the operating stage of a vehicle’s life.  https://climatesolutioncenter.com/environmental-impact-of-electric-vehicles/
• Higher upfront costs for users  https://www.ecowatch.com/electric-vehicles-cleanest-option-2650487222.html.
  • COUNTER:  Total savings are very large over lifetime due to gas and maintenance savings. https://www.consumerreports.org/hybrids-evs/evs-offer-big-savings-over-traditional-gas-powered-cars/.
  • COUNTER:; (new models coming out are cheapest. Likely to Be as Cheap as Conventional Cars by 2025, Says Economist); https://blog.ucsusa.org/cecilia-moura/5-ways-rural-drivers-benefit-from-electric-vehicles
  • COUNTER: BloombergNEF’s analysispredicts lithium-ion battery costs will fall to the extent that electric cars will match the price of petrol and diesel cars by 2023, while Lenton suggests 2024-2025. Also, reducing the amount of expensive cobalt required. https://www.theguardian.com/environment/2021/jan/22/electric-vehicles-close-to-tipping-point-of-mass-adoption?
  • COUNTER: Battery prices are declining year after year (see this cool graph.) https://twitter.com/i/status/1201788202274709505
  • COUNTER: Leasing is one option, especially for school buses.  https://yaleclimateconnections.org/2021/06/school-bus-fleet-to-go-electric-in-montgomery-county-maryland/.
  • COUNTER: The best investment may be electric transit, like buses, car-shares, etc… https://www.goget.com.au/blog/electric-vehicles-2030/.
  • COUNTER: In a vehicle, day-charging and offloading the charge during the evening scenario (vehicle to grid, V2G), families might start earning an income from their charge, instead of paying for gas. https://www.shareable.net/the-future-of-energy-is-a-symbiotic-grid/.
  • See also: https://www.ucsusa.org/resources/going-pump-plug?
• Mining the sea https://www.ecowatch.com/electrical-cars-seafloor-mining-2651006649.html
  • Extraction of these materials has thus far been limited to land, but international regulations for mining the deep seabed far offshore are in development.
  • See more about batteries below.
• lack of publicly accessible charging infrastructure https://blog.ucsusa.org/cecilia-moura/5-ways-rural-drivers-benefit-from-electric-vehicle
• “Range anxiety”
  • COUNTER: batteries being built now that can provide 200 mile charge in 5 minutes. https://www.theguardian.com/environment/2021/jan/19/electric-car-batteries-race-ahead-with-five-minute-charging-times.
• Fueling takes longer.
  • COUNTER: That is changing with new devices.

EVs better even in coal-fired regions?

https://www.ecowatch.com/electric-vehicles-cleanest-option-2650487222.html.

• “the average EV is responsible for lower carbon emissionsthan a 50 miles-per-gallon gasoline car for 94 percent of the US population.”
• “EV in upstate [cleaner] New York is even better. It would have emissions equivalent to a 231-mpg gasoline car.”
• “new EV purchased today will be powered by an electricity grid that is getting increasingly cleaner”
• EVs will continue to get cleaner as electricity gets cleaner, whereas gasoline will not. “electricity from coal-fired plants dropped from 45 percent of all US output to 28 percent between 2009 and 2018,”
• To switch to EVs, need car companies to up production, charging infrastructure, but also dealers to have the info [and inspiration] to sell the cars.

https://blog.ucsusa.org/dave-reichmuth/are-electric-vehicles-really-better-for-the-climate-yes-heres-why/#.XkV0Y4rtY9Z.linkedin.

• In Upstate New York, emissions from driving the cleanest EV are one tenth that of the average new gasoline vehicle.”
• “on the cleanest grids, the electric SUV is responsible for less than a quarter of the global warming emissions of the gasoline SUV. For more than 90 percent of the population, driving the electric version of this vehicle will produce less than half the global warming emissions of the gasoline model.”

https://thedriven.io/2019/12/09/are-evs-cleaner-than-ice-coal-grid.  Similar points. Based on study by Ryan Cornell at Harvard,  https://cgscholar.com/bookstore/works/the-climate-change-mitigation-potential-of-electric-vehicles-as-a-function-of-renewable-energy.

• even in NSW, Victoria and Queensland where some 80-90% of electricity is still generated from coal and gas, EVs only emit half the carbon dioxide of ICE vehiclesover their entire lifecycle.
• an average ICE vehicle will emit around 56-69 metric tonnes in its lifetime, depending on renewable electricity or not.
• the lifecycle EV carbon emissions for a vehicle powered by the 2016 US grid is 82 metric tons, while the emissions for an EV powered by 100 percent renewable energy is 6.3 metric tons.”

Saksvikrønning, Håvard. (2021). Electric Vehicles and CO2 – Why EVs on coal dramatically increase emissions. 10.13140/RG.2.2.16713.67681. https://www.researchgate.net/publication/354254433_Electric_Vehicles_and_CO2_-_Why_EVs_on_coal_dramatically_increase_emissions

• Makes the point that it is more important to use money that would subsidize EVs and instead use them to close down coal plants. Buying more EVs would demand more electrification, which could keep coal plants open.
• (But See point below under other Electrical Requirements – likely will force the grid to modernize. (less data behind this.)

Good summary of math of EVs in coal areas: https://climatesolutioncenter.com/environmental-impact-of-electric-vehicles/?

Batteries require extensive mining and the use of toxic chemicals.

• Mining is a dirty business.”
• demand for metals such as copper, lithium and cobalt would skyrocket if countries around the world try to get their electric grids and transportation systems fully powered by renewable energy by 2050.” (oops, missed the source)

https://www.ecowatch.com/electrical-cars-seafloor-mining-2651006649.html

• Institute for Sustainable Futures at the University of Technology Sydney found that demand for lithium could exceed supply by next year.  Demand for cobalt and nickel, also key battery components, will exceed production in less than a decade.”…China…DRC…human rights…
• Seafloor mining – materials common
  • already approved 28 mining contracts, working on standards.
  • Damage – 90 NGOs that have come out and said that we need a moratorium on ocean mining.”
    • a large diversity of carbon-absorbing microbes that build the base of the ocean’s food chain.”
    • deep sea is what McCauley calls “a big bank of safely stored carbon.”
    • Slow recovery. “A small-scale simulated mining experiment done in 1989 proved just that. “Scientists have returned to the site four times, most recently in 2015,” an article in Nature “The site has never recovered.
  • COUNTER: May not be necessary
    • Promising technologies.
    • Have reduced the amount of cobalt from 33% down to 10%, but 10% of tens of millions is still millions…and replaced with nickel, also potential for ocean-mining.
    • trying to [achieve] a battery with lithium sulfur, because sulfur is widely available.”
    • Can shift our technology, personal expectations and driving behavior.
      • More charging stations mean smaller batteries
      • Car-sharing

 

Infrastructure to Support Charging:

https://arstechnica.com/cars/2022/02/four-fast-chargers-every-50-miles-us-unveils-ev-infrastructure-plan

• federal government will begin doling out $5 billion to states over five years to build a nationwide network of fast chargers.
• initially focuses on the Interstate Highway System,
• have to install chargers that use the Combined Charging System, also known as CCS.
• Chargers must charge 4 cars simultaneously at 150 kW
• In some cases where grid is present but low power, exemptions allowed.
• Once states have completed the Interstate charging network, they’ll be able to apply for grants to fill in gaps elsewhere.
• prioritizes domestic production of chargers – expansion plans by companies given.

“Starting next year [2022], charging stations will be required at new construction sites in the City of St. Louis.” https://fox2now.com/news/electric-vehicles-are-getting-closer-to-having-their-moment-in-st-louis-if-it-hasnt-arrived-already/.

https://pjmedia.com/news-and-politics/bryan-preston/2020/12/21/toyota-ceo-agrees-with-elon-musk-we-dont-have-enough-electricity-to-electrify-all-the-cars-n1222999

(Conservative Media against “Radical Left”)

• Toyota CEO Akio Toyoda’s comments from Carbuzz (Wall Street Journal): Paraphrased by organization that EVs will “ruin businesses, require massive investments, and generate more carbon dioxide’:
  • Carbuzz quote said Toyoda said: “Japan would deplete its supply of electricity in the summer if all cars were running on electric power. The required infrastructure to support 100 percent EVs would cost the island nation between $135 billion and $358 billion.”
  • (Most of Japan coal or natural gas [hey, and nuclear].)
  • fossil fuels huge majority of electric power generation (61% in the U.S., with wind and solar making up about 17%,)
• PJ Media: “We would be displacing gasoline or diesel for another power source…. Wind is not economically competitive yet, so it’s subsidized by the government. [so are FFs!] Neither wind nor solar are cheap or reliable enough to displace oil and especially natural gas in our grid. [Wind maybe not, but solar is now.]
• “The wind doesn’t always blow and the sun doesn’t always shine. Oil and natural gas always burn.” [Counter: Should not rely on one source anyway, as we have seen in disasters. Should have storage.]
• Musk said electricity consumption will double if entire fleet electrified. [so focus on public transit too]
• As title says – but note that it is focused on increasing renewable energy sources, not all energy sources.

 

Batteries:  Life and Infrastructure

https://www.bbc.com/news/business-56574779

• Rate of EV growth is massive, never something switched over at this scale before (paraphrasing.)
• In 10 to 15 years … large numbers [of batteries] coming to the end of their life
• EV batteries are larger and heavier and are made up of several hundred individual lithium-ion cell that have to be dismantled.
• 5% recycled right now, estimated.
• There is reuse of batteries into less critical machinery
• Then recycling plants being built (Volkswagen, Renault), including more automation
• Safety gear is needed. Labor expensive.
• But so is mining raw material.

 

Batteries Recycling:

• Recycling can recover 95-98% of elements/long-term solution https://www.ecowatch.com/electrical-cars-seafloor-mining-2651006649.html
• https://www.greencarreports.com/news/1134087_used-nissan-leaf-batteries-are-already-making-money-as-power-brokers?
• • CA company supports a solar farm using “entire battery packs are reused without alterations. They’re simply placed in small structures, complete with their original casings.”
  • Nissan creating power packs from used Leaf cars, but not in U.S. yet.
  • years of use out of packs.

Other energy requirements:

• The giant composite glass bladeson modern windmills are not efficiently recyclable, so after they’re used up they end up in landfills, Bloomberg reported in February 2020.” https://pjmedia.com/news-and-politics/bryan-preston/2020/12/01/musk-electric-cars-will-require-a-lot-more-electric-power-than-we-currently-have-n1183962.
  • COUNTER: Recyclable ones have now been made. https://electrek.co/2022/08/02/worlds-first-wind-turbine-with-recyclable-blades-is-up-and-spinning/.
  • COUNTER: “Electric Cars Powered by Tidal Energy Are Driving Scotland Toward Net Zero Emissions“ https://www.ecowatch.com/electric-vehicles-tides-scotland-2651203390.html?!
• EVs will force the grid to modernize. “As more people use the grid to recharge batteries for various products, day and night prices are likely to even out, making EV charging less expensive during the day,” https://www.consumerreports.org/hybrids-evs/evs-offer-big-savings-over-traditional-gas-powered-cars/.
• New system will be composed of millions of interdependent sources of generation, storage, and adaptive response. While at first, this distributed network may be more challenging to manage, eventually it will enable a stronger grid that’s less vulnerable to outages and provides dozens of mutual benefits to producers, consumers, and communities.” https://www.shareable.net/the-future-of-energy-is-a-symbiotic-grid/.
• “The need for energy storage may work symbiotically with the rise of electric cars. During the workday, when most vehicles are parked, the noon sun creates more electricity than we use in our buildings. Those extra electrons can be saved in our car batteries and be put to use after work as we drive home on the sunshine. When the sun sets, demand for electricity surges…. [Vehicle to Grid] power … may transform one of the biggest costs [transportation] for families into a source of income.” (Transportation is currently $9000/yr/family). https://www.shareable.net/the-future-of-energy-is-a-symbiotic-grid/.
• “Electric vehicles are enabling energy democracy” “…energy generation becoming localized with things like rooftop solar, where you are seeing the control of energy a localized with the way that our smartphones give us all sorts of control: whether it’s to change the color of light bulbs or schedule when our air conditioning is running.” (interview podcast.) https://ilsr.org/electric-vehicles-episode-29-of-the-building-local-power-podcast/.

 

Coming no matter what, so let’s be prepared:

• “Japanese government’s potential plan that could result in a ban of all internal combustion-powered car salesby as soon as 2030. Carbuzz
• “Toyota is poised to make and sell millions of electric vehicles. It already has the game-changing solid-state battery coming on line” PJMedia.
• Scotland had surpassed 90 percent renewables, BBC More recent calculations could show that Scotland has met its target [of 100% by 2020.] In its push toward net-zero, the Scottish government also banned selling new cars powered solely by gas or diesel by 2032,
• https://www.cnbc.com/2021/01/25/biden-plans-to-replace-government-fleet-with-electric-vehicles..
• General Motors (GM) announced it hopes to stop selling gas- and diesel-powered passenger cars and light sports utility vehicles (SUVs) by 2035. That target date is likely no accident. Last fall, China announced that 50 percent of the new cars sold in the country by 2035 will have to be electric, plug-in hybrid, or fuel cell vehicles, while California Gov. Gavin Newsom signed an executive order banning the sale of gasoline-powered passenger cars and pickup trucks in his state by then. https://www.ecowatch.com/electric-vehicles-cleanest-option-2650487222.html.
• Dominion Energyin Virginia is working with school bus manufacturers to develop and operationalize a large-scale school bus vehicle-to-grid program.” https://www.ecowatch.com/electric-vehicles-texas-blackout-2650741199.html.
• https://www.ecowatch.com/amsterdam-to-ban-fossil-fueled-vehicles-2636405358.html
• “Volvo, which announced at the beginning of March that it will make only electric cars by 2030. This follows news that Jaguar will be all-electric in 2025 and Volkswagen after 2026. General Motors says it’s aiming to make its cars and light trucks electric by 2035, while Ford is doubling its investments in EVs and plans to sell only electric cars in Europeby 2030. https://www.ecowatch.com/electrical-cars-seafloor-mining-2651006649.html.
• 99% of the taxis in Shenzhen in China are electric – https://www.mordorintelligence.com/industr…/ev-taxi-market
• There are thousands in London – https://thedriven.io/…/thousands-of-electric-taxis-in…/
• https://www.greenmatters.com/p/car-companies-electric-energy-pledge; https://www.forbes.com/wheels/news/automaker-ev-plans/; and https://mashable.com/article/traditional-carmakers-going-all-electric-vehicles (Lists of various companies, from Ford to Uber, pledging to go EV.)